Wait...Re: Fed up with Eric's Rules

[Bill Bledsoe <bledsoe -at- CMS-STL -dot- COM>]

Boy o boy...  do people have enough to do or what???

I'm going to respond to most of mr. nichols' points inline below... I'd advise
some fire-retardant suits...


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Nichols [SMTP:mark2051 -at- YAHOO -dot- COM]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 4:51 PM
> > To:   TECHWR-L -at- LISTSERV -dot- OKSTATE -dot- EDU
> > Subject:      Fed up with Eric's Rules
> >
> > For too long, Eric Ray has controlled and restricted information on
> > this list.

Uh... wait a minute... it is his list.  He can control it however he wants.  It
is operated on a server that gave HIM the space to do this list.  so...  yeah...
it is okay.

This goes into this whole notion that the internet belongs to the people all of
the time...  I've got news for you:  Unless you have your own T-3 and you're own
server...  It AIN'T yours.  It is the server owners...  that's that.  You can
choose to participate... but nowhere in anyone's constitution is the god-given
right to free speech protected on privately owned and operated computer
equipment (which is what the INTERNET truly is..)

> > When people have raised controversial, inflammatory, or
> > decisive topics, he has stopped the threads, issued his idiotic little
> > ADMIN posts, and removed members who expressed their ideas.

uh... again... he does this in as judicious and objective manner as you could
expect from a VOLUNTEER.  I can't believe that you pay ZERO for this service and
you would have the gall to complain about it.  If you paid something to be on
here... I'd have a different thought.  But right now... you've pushed the
"ignorant envelope" just a little too far.

> > Eric might
> > not have a responsibility to publish, but he has taken his job as list
> > moderator WAY too far.  He has gone beyond merely policing the group,
> > to practicing full-scale censorship and  ppression.

uh... how can it be censorship if he owns it?  He has no responsibility to
publish... and in the States... that means... no censorship is possible.  Brush
up on the ol' Comm Law before you open your virtual mouth...

> > A growing number of us are sick and tired of his  fascist rules.
> > Under the guise of moderating this group to only talk about technical
> > communication, Eric wipes out all dissension and topics which he
> > personally feels are irrelevant.  Hey Eric - some of us would like to
> > hear those ideas!

Great.  go someplace else.  Stick to Deja news... and the other 2000 or so of us
will enjoy the list without you.

> > In the last three months, Eric has removed scores of members for
> > violations of his intolerant rules.  This list has become a laughing
> > stock of the technical communications community.

Uh.. no it hasn't.  I don't know what "leading edge" technical communication
community you are a part of... but the people that are part of the "technical
communications community" that I belong to appreciates the list, and takes the
"wheat" with the "chaff" on the list...

> > Some writers find this list so horrible, they will not even accept posts
> forwarded from
> > the list.  My manager thinks this list is a utter and complete waste
> > of time. The woman in the cube next to me dropped off the list almost
> > a year ago.  Her reasons "nothing even remotely interesting is ever
> > discussed on the list.  That guy controls every word on there. You
> > can't post anything without a nasty message from him."

well... all I can say is... it is you're loss...  but they might have a higher
opinion of the list if we quelled even further long running diatribes about the
role of the Man and Woman in the global Technical Communications society.

> > Recently, Eric removed George Mena for his ideas about confrontations
> > between men and women - While Mr. Mena's ideas were controversial,
> > they were also a legitimate opinion about workplace confrontations.
> > Because the sensitives of a few meek readers were offended, we missed
> > the opportunity to explore Mr. Mena's ideas.

You know what... that discussion did not have anything to do with Technical
Communication... not one IOTA.  I am soooo glad... that was stopped... I am one
of the people who emailed eric and DEMANDED that he was taken off. An
interesting factoid about TECHWR-L... You should know that the list is hosted on
a server owned by a public entity... that could face legal liability if
dicussions like Mr. Mena's were allowed to continue.  Many of the other

> > In a removal a few months back, Eric kicked a member off because he
> > made a public attack on Eric's ridiculous warnings about the use of
> > sexist language.

These are not ridiculous warnings... these are a good faith effort on Eric's
part to keep the list from losing its host, a Pubilc university in the United
States that cannot allow such dicussions to continue without action, for fear of
legal action against Eric and the University.  It is a product of our legal
system in the US, not some draconian plot by "Eric the great" to "oppress" the
technically communicating plebes...  You're lack of depth and analysis of what
you have said shows me and others that you don't really have a good handle on
what you are talking about.

> > In his most recent removal, Eric kicked off Andrew Plato, for his
> > biting and hilarious satire of the Ugly Incident thread.  I loved Mr.
> > Plato's posts.  They were often the brightest thing on this list.

yeah... but it was filling up my inbox with the same crap that your cooworkers
were objecting to.  If I see that damned Dr. Suess thing delivered to my inbox
one more time.. I'll puke!!!  (by the way... don't get any bright ideas about
you and your friends sending me that joke from a bulk mailer... the "Dr. Suess"
filter is already dumping your messages into the trash.  and... as soon as I run
the SMTP trace software we have our firewall...  you're ISP will know about any
spam actions you take.   Be wary...

> > I am sick and tired of every interesting or remotely controversial
> > idea being squashed on this list.  I have another account on this
> > list.  I made this "phantom" account so Eric could not kick the "real
> > me" off. The fact is, I know that if I made these complaints through
> > my "real account" Eric would kick me off in an instant.

uh... you're real account... and any "faux" account you set up can be traced
back to your ISP...  you will lose this battle too.   again... you know not of
what you speak...

> > So, I am asking everyone to leave this list and begin using the
> > listserv newsgroup rather than this mailing list.  The newsgroup is
> > bit.listserv.techwr-l.  You will need a news reader to access this
> > newsgroup.  You can access the newsgroup through www.dejanews.com.
> > Anyone can post to the news group, regardless of being an "approved
> > user."  This will allow for a freer exchange of ideas and information.

Now here's a switch in my attitude...  Not being smart here but... I think this
is an excellent idea.  there is no reason why you shouldn't have/promote another
list... heck even an alt. newsgroup.  There is nothing that says that Eric holds
rights to the ONLY diccussion for Technical Communication on the internet...
the biggest problem that most have with you're discussion is your tone... and
your lack of depth to your arguement.  But... hey...  if you want to jump on...
and without calling a listowner a facist advertise other forums... that's great!



> > Moreover, if you use a news reader like Outlook Express or Netscape,
> > you can scan the topics and read only those threads that interest you.
> > It might be a little more chaotic than this list - but at least we'll
> > have the freedom to express our opinions without Eric being our mother
> > telling us what we can and cannot read.

again... see this is just not necessary.  You sound immature... and generally
not worthy of my time or the list's by making statements like this.

> > Also, there is an effort underway to create a new newsgroup called
> > alt.writing.technical.  I have also contacted a few people about
> > setting up a web site with a discussion forum.  The people I have
> > talked to all agree, this list is a complete joke and needs to be
> > abandoned - those that like sanitized crap can remain behind.

ditto my previous statement...

> > I encourage the members of this list who desire a more open and free
> > exchange of information to stop using this list and start posting to
> > the newsgroup.  I will keep everyone updated to our activities through other
> "phantom"
> > accounts on this list.

you know... as a long time TECHWR-L list member... I don't see where you'd need
to use a web-based email account to advertise other forums... as long as you'd
agree to do it in a non-personal-attack-laiden message.

> > Incidentally, Eric, myself and others hold numerous "phantom" accounts
> > on this list.  To be blunt, you cannot stop these message by merely
> > kicking me and my colleagues off. We can sign up a virtually unlimited
> > number of "phantom" accounts due to the way this list is structured.

uh... again... no you cannot.  You can't sign up for accounts as fast as
TECHWR-L can reject them.  You obviously do not know much about running a list
serv... let alone how far firewall and spam tracing technology has come.

I'm going to go back to work... and listening to the TECHWR-L list that I, and
many others happen to find useful.  I suggest that you go and set up other
vehicles for communicating your ideas... and quit wasting your time filling
inboxes with your mostly useless banter.


--
*************************************************
Bill Bledsoe (bill -dot- bledsoe -at- cms-stl -dot- com)
Web Developer - CMS
St. Louis, MO - USA
"St. Louis is The Best Baseball Town in America"
              peter gammons - espn 9-8-98
"If Bill Said it, Bill said it, not CMS. Got it?"
**************************************************

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