Re: The Ugly Incident

[Debra Reed <DReed -at- SCANTRON -dot- COM>]

Yes, I completely agree. I just left a job where the so-called Doc
Manager, a 40-year-old male, yelled every chance he could get. Was it
because he was 40, white, male, or were they other factors (hiding his
insecurity, incompetence, etc. etc.) He also left to take a Marketing
job soon after I left. People are people are people...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elna Tymes [SMTP:etymes -at- LTS -dot- COM]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 11:57 AM
> To:   TECHWR-L -at- LISTSERV -dot- OKSTATE -dot- EDU
> Subject:      Re: The Ugly Incident
>
> George Mena wrote:
>
> > 2) Avoid Male-Female Co-Worker Confrontations Like The Plague:  This
> is one
> > issue men will never win 200 times out of 100, guaranteed, even if,
> somehow,
> > the men are "right."  The best way to deal with a loudmouth woman is
> to have
> > absolutely nothing to do with her.  Period.  Loudmouth women are
> nothing but
> > trouble.  They are to be avoided whenever possible.
>
> The worth of whatever else George may have had to say got totally lost
> in my
> reaction to the above.  If ever there was a case of blatant sexism at
> work, it
> was obvious in the paragraph above.
>
> The problem, dear George, is not with male-female interactions. It's
> with
> interactions between PEOPLE.  Gender has nothing to do with it.
> NOTHING.
>
> There are loudmouth males and loudmouth females, and loudmouths of
> every sexual
> orientation you can think of.  Some of the loudmouths actually say
> worthwhile
> things, AND get listened to, because people around them simply get
> used to the
> fact that these things get stated more firmly/loudly when coming from
> this
> person than from others.  And yes, sometimes the arrogance tends to
> trip them
> up.
>
> Having been a "loudmouth woman" most of my adult life, I can vouch for
> the fact
> that it's one effective style, in a palette of work styles that mostly
> work.
> There are others that work as well, and many that don't.  I have been
> a pubs
> manager in a number of companies, and acting project manager in far
> too many to
> count, and my being a "loudmouth woman" has generally not gotten in
> the way of
> me and my team, whatever they may include, delivering what we're
> supposed to do,
> on time.
>
> George - you owe the women on this list - and I suspect they outnumber
> the men -
> quite an apology for your over-generalized remarks.
>
> Elna Tymes
> Los Trancos Systems
>
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