RE: reduced relative clause: -ing form vs. which

Subject: RE: reduced relative clause: -ing form vs. which
From: "McLauchlan, Kevin" <Kevin -dot- McLauchlan -at- safenet-inc -dot- com>
To: Phil Snow Leopard <philstokes03 -at- googlemail -dot- com>, "B.J. Smith" <bjsmith -at- ucar -dot- edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:39:34 -0400

I disagree. The guy who talked about restrictive clause had the idea...

To me, [a] and [c] are equivalent and are probably the useful ones in this context.
They say that a custom map is a ZIP file (a general type of object, not necessarily an identical equivalent to a custom map, since ZIP files can be many more things than custom maps), and they say what that particular _instance_ or type of a ZIP file happens to contain. The definition of a "custom map" is not that it is a ZIP file. The definition of a "custom map" is that it is a particular subset of ZIP file, based on particular contents.

Item [b], by the use of "which", _defines_ what a ZIP file is (in this case, a ZIP file is defined as containing whatever items are listed after "...the following..."). That's wrong.
Either a ZIP file is a compressed archive of any of a vast assortment of possible file contents, OR a ZIP file is now redefined to be "a thing containing exactly what a 'custom map' would contain".



> -----Original Message-----
> From: techwr-l-bounces+kevin -dot- mclauchlan=safenet-inc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-
> l.com [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+kevin.mclauchlan=safenet-
> inc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com] On Behalf Of Phil Snow Leopard
> Sent: March-29-12 10:26 AM
> To: B.J. Smith
> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: reduced relative clause: -ing form vs. which
>
> All of the following are grammatically correct and all mean the same
> thing:
>
> [a] A custom map is a ZIP file containing the following...
>
> [b] A custom map is a ZIP file which contains the following...
>
> [c] A custom map is a Zip file that contains the following...
>
> Both [b] and [c] are defining relative clauses. I wouldn't call [a] a
> clause at all (though some grammar books do) because for me a clause by
> definition has to have a subject and a tensed verb.
>
> I'd call [a] (or at least this part of it "containing the
> following...") either an adjective phrase or a participle phrase.
>
> As for usage, personally I prefer to use the least verbiage to get the
> message across clearly, so I'd plump for [a] other things being equal.
> Those "other things" might include:
>
> -In some genres and styles of writing, its better to be verbose
> -in some genres you may want to vary sentence patterns (e.g., if you
> had a couple of sentences with defining relative clauses one after the
> other, you might want to use the adjective phrase to avoid a repetitive
> style).
>
> The short answer is there is no 'correct' or 'more correct' pattern to
> use in any absolute sense. Like so many things with writing (and what
> makes it an art), It's a matter of style, context and purpose.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>
> On 29 Mar 20 12, at 21:14, B.J. Smith wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure about the "reduced relative clause" question, but I
> would prefer [b] after replacing "which" with "that."
> >
> >
> > On 3/29/2012 7:46 AM, Yves Barbion wrote:
> >> Hi again group
> >>
> >> Which do you prefer and why:
> >>
> >> [a] A custom map is a ZIP file containing the following...
> >>
> >> [b] A custom map is a ZIP file which contains the following...
> >>
> >> Am I right in thinking that "a" is a "reduced relative clause",
> which is
> >> incorrect in this particular example?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >
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Follow-Ups:

References:
reduced relative clause: -ing form vs. which: From: Yves Barbion
Re: reduced relative clause: -ing form vs. which: From: B.J. Smith
Re: reduced relative clause: -ing form vs. which: From: Phil Snow Leopard

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