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Andrew Plato wrote:
> "Bonnie Granat" <> wrote ...
>
>> I'm suggesting that if my job is being outsourced, nobody with
>> integrity would blame *me.* And if my former company cut its doc
>> department to two people, and you blame me for that, you are a
>> consummate jerk.
>
> I think you're missing a very important nuance Bonnie.
>
> There is a difference between the two scenarios:
>
Nothing even remotely like these scenarios was being discussed.
> SCENARIO 1
> Interviewer: Why did you leave your last job?
> Applicant: Oh, the company was downsizing and my department got cut.
> I was laid off with a lot of other people. It was unfortunate, but
> these things happen. I learned a lot at that job and I think my
> experiences there fit well with what you're looking for.
>
>
> SCENARIO 2
> Interviewer: Why did you leave your last job?
> Applicant: They offshored my position. I worked there for 2 years
and
> they decided they could save some money hiring some people from
> India. I told them I wouldn't take that so I just walked right out
> and quit. The management at that place had a lot of problems. They
> just didn't understand how to run a company.
>
>
> The point John is making is that certain words are loaded with
> pre-conceptions and agendas. Offshoring is one of those words. If
you
> walk into an interview and start whining and blaming others for your
> failed jobs, then most sane people will not hire you. You can shout
> and scream all day about integrity, but nobody with half a brain
> hires somebody who is bitter and resentful.
>
We were not talking about blaming or whining. We were talking about
whether it's fair to judge someone negatively because they say their
job was outsourced. That's all the discussion was about.
> Yes, it is terrible how many people get laid off. But the offshoring
> problem is more complex than just jobs. John is right to a certain
> extent, that if a company outsources a job to another country then
> obvious that work had gotten to a point where it was not
economically
> viable to employ locals. In other words, the locals were not adding
> enough value. However, its equally true, that companies will seek
out
> places to save money, and things like tech writing are often the
> first to get chopped because they are not viewed as mission
critical.
>
> In either way, tech writers do have a responsibility to make
> themselves useful. And while its sad when people get laid off who
are
> doing good work, there are plenty of people who were laid off
because
> they WEREN'T doing good work. They were, like many tech writers,
> obsessing over trivial issues and turning out mediocre work.
>
The issue being discussed was whether an applicant should hide the
fact that his job was offshored. That was the subject. Just that.
>> " nobody with integrity would blame *me.*
>
> Integrity, means that you stick to your word. If you say you'll do
> something, you do it. You're using the word improperly, Bonnie. I
> think what you want to say is "nobody with common decency would
blame
> me."
>
I was using the first definition of integrity, Andrew:
1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values :
INCORRUPTIBILITY
2 : an unimpaired condition : SOUNDNESS
3 : the quality or state of being complete or undivided :
COMPLETENESS
synonyms see HONESTY
> And you're partially right. Its not very kind to blame the person
who
> got laid off for that situation. Integrity really has nothing to do
> with it. You can have very high integrity, but still be unkind.
>
Integrity has everything to do with it.
> The whole point is - be careful what you say. Chose your words
> carefully and strategically. If you walk into an interview armed for
> battle, you'll lose, because the deck is stacked against you. While
> it might not be *kind* for a person to blame you for being laid off,
> its not unusual. As such its best NOT to say any more then you have
> to. Keep details light and the focus on your skills.
>
Nobody's talking about doing anything like this, Andrew. We're talking
about whether to try to HIDE the facts or not.
> Some interviewers (like myself) will specifically ask questions to
> see if a applicant "goes negative." I purposefully bait people in
> interviews to see what's under the surface. And without fail, the
> least qualified people will always take the bait and start ranting
> about how unfair the world is. Its a very good sign of maturity and
> professionalism if you can sit in an interview and never speak badly
> of former employers or co-workers, even when baited.
>
We are not talking about whining or "going negative."
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