Re: More ethics...
If I understand you correctly, you are saying morally stealing can be
OK, even though legally it is wrong.
I never said that it was OK - just that, by the criterion of the harm done, some thefts were worse than others.
You react as if this idea is somehow new. Yet it's not. Executing someone behalf of the state is considered acceptable by many. So is killing during war. Killing by accident or self-defence is generally punished less harshly than deliberately planned killing. In all cases, the act is the same, but the degree of blame differs. I can't think of any reason why theft should be absolute when killing isn't.
Also, there is no such thing as "legally wrong." Law and ethics overlap, but do not necessarily have anything to do with each other.
You agree that it is legally wrong, but you would set up a
moral standard based upon your individual perception of victim harm.
Should I simply take an external moral standard,then, and not wrestle with these issues? That sounds far more dangerous than trying to work things out for yourself. Anyway, even if you internalize someone else's morals, there's no use pretending that you don't have to exercise your judgement to apply them.
I never said that theft should be judged legally on the basis of harm. In fact, I specificially said that wasn't a good idea. But, if it were, harm could be assessed by standards that can be generally agreed upon. Libel cases make such an assessment all the time.
I have no right to appropriate any of
your property without your consent.
Maybe not, Still, if you were desperate for survival and merely inconvenienced me by stealing from me, I wouldn't blame you. And if you didn't hurt me or frighten me too much, I probably wouldn't report it. If you were that desperate, I wouldn't want to mess you up even further by subjecting you to the legal system.
Not that I'm a candidate for enlightenment or anything, but I try not to make the mistake that things I use or buy are an extension of my ego.
Logical conclusion from you argument:
It is morally OK for me to steal any of your work, since I would not
have bought it anyway.
You'll have to lead me through your logic here, because I don't see it. If you read what I actually said, rather than what you think I said, you'll see that I have never said that theft is acceptable. What is open (to me, anyway) is the degree of seriousness of the act.
However, I really don't see much use discussing this issue. It isn't relevant to the list.
Moreover, we are really arguing from two different assumption. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to be using your moral codes as explanatory principles; that is, you seem content to say that theft is wrong and never to probe why it might be wrong. By contrast, I am trying to figure out why it is wrong and whether there are degree of wrong. I make no judgement about the two viewpoints, but this exchange has gone on long enough for me to conclude that they don't translate well into each other. So, with all respect, and no insult intended, I suggest that we both have better things to do than continue this discussion.
--
Bruce Byfield 604.421.7177 bbyfield -at- axionet -dot- com
"At poolside picnics they chant for Ferraris and furs
Their muscle tone sharpens but their hold on reality blurs
You can have your cake and eat it, & never have to puke up a thing,
Jerusalem on the jukebox, little angels beat your wings."
-Richard Thompson, "Jerusalem on the Jukebox"
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